Texts and Emails, Wednesday 7 July 2010

Topic: NAMA

Guests: Brian Lucey (TCD), Elaine Hutdon (UCD), Emmet Oliver (Irish Independent) and Tom Lyons (Sunday Times)

What about all those on social welfare and single mothers left this week without their money. Something about a form for residency, which it appears they never received to fill in. Perhaps government attempting to delay payment same day our ministers etc. going on 3 months holidays. Anyone spare a thought for young children tonight without food or light. Shameful.

Anne

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If we are expecting this Government to speak any truths concerning the debacle unfolding, i.e. NAMA, we are being foolish. After all, these developers made them millionaires with their brown envelopes for re-zoning, planning, etc.

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Anglo and Fianna Fail-er front benchers are in bed together. Get rid of both before its too late. Burn Anglo to the ground now. If this keeps up the public will be up in arms!

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So they would rather level perfectly good homes rather than give them to hard pressed families. Heads we lose, tails we lose.

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We are advised that we should have listened to Morgan Kelly three years ago when he foretold the bank crisis. However, we are also told we should ignore the advice from Morgan Kelly today, which is to cease the bank bailout and agree terms with the bank creditors. Surely its time to listen this and stop beggaring the country.

Frank, Meath

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I only want to know why does Prof. Lucey not wear a shirt and tie. Its a disgrace.

Mike

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With the intelligent guys u have there tonight and many more like them, they could do a lot to sort out the dreadful mess we are in. We desperately need honest people to do this like the guys you have tonight.

Ann, Clare

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Why cant anyone see the truth. Front bench Finna Failers are directly involved with Anglo. Someone must have files and tapes on FFs. That’s the only reasons a zombie bank is kept afloat. Why cant some sane person out there get a can of petrol and burn the place to the ground. Anglo must be put out of its misery!

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Can you ask Brian Lucey, how long can Ireland continue to borrow money to pay debt for this, will b the reckoning for Ireland.

Mark, Sligo

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Again, FF are neglecting Ireland’s children over the mortgages. As its families with kids who bought these homes, who can barely make ends meet.

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Can I move my mortgage to a European bank from Ireland?

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Is honesty a forgotten virtue in the realm of our rogue bankers and politicians.

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This panel is made up of people who should be running this country. We have imbeciles in government. Why is it the ordinary people could see all this coming but the government couldn’t? And yet they want to rob people who cannot look after themselves of a few million euro. They are a disgrace.

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Why are the banks allowed to keep their art collection that never sees the light of day they are as bad as the church wallowing in riches while the people they harmed still suffer.

Martin, Dublin

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Dail today like a comedy show. If not so serious we could enjoy the comedy, Vincent. A disgrace.

Anne, Kilkenny

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Thank God for your program, Vincent. You were right all along. You and panel are like the many who saw that the emperor had no clothes! Keep shouting from the rooftops.

Judy, Cork

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Who were the holders of these high-risk bonds?

Nick, Castleknock

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Please explain: Why cant homebuyers seek legal action for being misled into buying their fraudulently overpriced mortgages?

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Talk, talk. Time to realise you are achieving nothing except boring your viewers. Tired listening to it all.

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Is their no shame left in you. All that time talking about NAMA at a cost to the people.

Joe, Donegal

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What was Sean Quinn thinking, buying Anglo bank shares if it was well known that Anglo was a basket case.

Kevin

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Presenter rambles on too much. Let the panel members speak.

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The NAMA situation is way worse even than is being said. Let's just say we put 20 billion into NAMA and we get 20 billion back in 10 years. No accountant would call that break even when putting it in a fixed term deposit would yield 25 billion plus. Even the worst sceptics have glossed over this. NAMA, Anglo, etc. will cost a fortune. These projections are just "smoke and daggers" in the words of the muppet who got us here.

Colum, Cork

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Banking clean up is going to cost 120 billion, not a penny less.

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Vincent, nobody has answered this question: Where has the money gone?

David, Dublin

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We the tax payers have just been robbed again by the bankers, secrets and lies by our prime minister, not on, these people along with Rockefeller, the queen, the Bilderberg group, robbery and war crimes they should be arrested for...

No one knew the potential losses, certainly not in the banks, AIB CEO Sheehy was buying shares in 2008.

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Who did your hair, Vincent? It is lovely.

Shelly, Wexford

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Vincent, didn't Brian Lucey say in the past that economics is not an exact science to explain when he was dead wrong on another issue? Why is he right now?

Tom

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You have an admirer, I think you are great.

Maria

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Will we ever learn. The banks lie, the government spoof, the analysts don't know anything. We are sick of the lot. I wish they would just go to hell.

David

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Wait till you see how dysfunctional all the loans in the second and third trance to NAMA are, the first ten guys had the best stuff and were the best organised.

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Listening to Brian Lenihan this morning and Frank Fahy at lunchtime talking about how the banks will be forced to pay a levy if NAMA shows a deficit or a loss when it has finished its work made me very angry. The true position is that, while Lenihan said in earlier statements that a levy would be put on banks in the event of NAMA showing a loss, this was changed when the Act was drafted, to a surcharge on the banks’ Corporation Tax, which is a totally different animal altogether. We all know that banks have tax management strategies that ensure that they pay bugger all in Corporation Tax, which means that a surcharge will just give the taxpayer another small percentage of bugger all. Even this change was not enough for Lenihan and the banks. In the final paragraph, the section says that the surcharge wont be payable until 10 years after the Act was passed, or until NAMA was dissolved or changed, whichever event is the latter. There is not and never was a levy, and the surcharge will never see the light of day. Lenihan and Fahy knew this when they were speaking today but didn't care that they were wrong. We are being taken for morons again by these sleazebags and this government, and they are getting away with it. Section 225 NAMA Act 2009 - Surcharge on participating institutions. Read it for yourself if you don’t believe me.

Thomas, Letterkenny

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Where is the father of NAMA now? (Peter Bacon). What’s he saying these days?

Ben

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And nobody goes to jail?

Tom, Kerry

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Can we hear about where we go from here rather than where we have been.

Ger, Mayo

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In the national interest (of fairness)?? Why is there not a levy on the earnings of the valuers, auctioneers, lawyers, accountants, etc. directlyon the firms who created the "bubble" to stay in existence, as many of these poachers have now turned gamekeepers?

Also, why can there not be a "haircut" (a trim if not short back and sides) to the sellers of these inflated priced sites or other mechanism to retrieve this money that costs now taxpayers?

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Vincent please let Prof Lucey talk without constant interruption as last time—he knows more than anyone on your panel about this subject.

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Emmett Oliver, Michael J. Fox double.

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Why hav u lucy on panel didnt u hear that he was givin dodgy advice when he was in pockets of shady financial institutions

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where are the profits of all the developers that were make in the boom time? Could they not pay back their debts with their profits?

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Vincent, please ask Minister Lenihan to call me, I figured out the only way we can get out of this mess and I don’t hear your panel coming up with solution!

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Same old rhetoric. Get people who know how to solve the problem.

Donal, Athlone

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I'm buying shares in BP and Bank of Ireland. Very similar problems have both their share prices artificially low right now. What say you Vincent? Am I on a winner?

Dave, Ratoath

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NAMA is a complete farce, always was and always will be. Same fools in charge wearing different coloured suits.

Noel, Limerick

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When FF spoke of the guarantees Europe would give Ireland for a “yes” to Lisbon, the only guarantees FF were securing were for now. Future bank bailouts.

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For such a young country, not even 100 years, old why can’t we get it right. With only 4.5 million people … Holland is the size of Munster with 16.5 million people. Are we just a shower of gangsters?

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Can anyone tell us, who has got the bank bailout money.

Kevin

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Even the dogs in the street knew NAMA was a stitch up of the people of Ireland. We're now looking worse than Iceland.

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The idea that we can fix a debt problem by borrowing money only makes sense when everyone is insane.

Michael, Monaghan

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All old hat, give us a break.

Ger Foley

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If the taxpayer has to bail out the banks whenever they mess up, is it not fair that they should be nationalised so that the profits should be shared as well as the losses?

David

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Vincent, it’s time for the army to take over if only to see the look on the face of the IMF.

Sean

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Scrap NAMA and bank bailout and establish one good not-for-profit, publicly owned bank.

Kieran, Tralee

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Don’t be fooled by the banks, anything of value is siphoned off and the tax payer is left with the rubbish.

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How about finding some intelligent women to join your single female representative to balance your debate? Looks like you have an all male Montessori group. Balance please!

Rita

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Vincent, finance ministers told us lies, the bankers more lies, dukes more lies. Shut Anglo down, nobody seems to know truth anymore, or be accountable on their watch, as a former Fianna Failer I think they are now the pits

Larry

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How do citizens who are not taxpayers contribute, Vincent?!

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Vincent, where is the Europe in all of this? All we heard from Fianna Fail was that Europe blessed all this? Are we now going to hear spin that Europe led Fianna Fail down the wrong road? Otherwise, blame somebody else again.

Aidan

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Talking heads talking crap. This is all just top of head speculation. No one can say with any confidence how NAMA will fare in ten years.

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Will the child benefit be cut in the budget?

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Why are Irish taxpayers only, and not European taxpayers, paying for Anglo’s losses?

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Sure NAMA is going to cost us big time, the dogs on the street could have told you that.

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What I heard is that NAMA doesn’t have a charge on their properties of the loans, that they can be sold off and owners can still make profits.

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Could Vincent ask if we shut NAMA and Anglo down, how would the external markets react to this?

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Vincent, I think we also need to be discussing the prospective bailout of Eircom to ensure a national landline network.

Tim, Limerick

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Surley it makes no difference what NAMA loses, because for it to make a profit the banks would only have to get more capital so either way the taxpayer gets screwed.

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What would have happened if the banks were let go to the wall?

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Why, oh why can’t Ireland let the market find the price of these lands and properties. No matter how low it is, then and only then will things improve. No longer can we protect governments, banks, and financiers.

Ed, Dublin

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Lads, get over it—we will have to pay for all this stuff for generations, full stop. There is no other way.

Brendan, Tipperary

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Vincent, Fiat money created out of thin air! Now we pour more money into this black hole. This is a post-modern coup of the global economy, enslaving people an countries into perpetuity into the future.

Mr. P

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The government purchased NAMA assets with a haircut of roughly 50 percent, so the 50 percent performance the panellists talk off is accounted for.

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One economist said we could not have predicted the Greece crisis and similarly the Euro crisis. Isn't the case that you and all your panel can't predict the future either. All I can see is a lorry load of professionals with their snouts firmly embedded in the trough.

Greg

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Vincent, does any developer have an interest in repaying loans transferred to NAMA? There has been no evidence of an aggressive recovery approach nor evidence of legal recourse due to poor documentation by the banks. Who will pay for clear wrong doing on the part of the banks or at least clear negligence on their part.

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Is Vincent wearing Vaseline on eyebrows?

Tim, Baldoyle

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Usual panel: all questions, no answers, hurlers on the ditch.

J,Crumlin

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Big fan from Cork says, 'that tie has to go, Vincent.' Also, any chance of having the show on earlier, forever wrecked in the morning!

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Given what we now know, why aren't the banks pursued for fraud?

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When are you going to do a program about fathers who are kept away from their kids because the mum wants it that way.

John, Galway

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If I lied on a bank application loan, that is fraud. But when the banks lie, that’s being naive. You couldn’t make it up.

David, Cork

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So what if NAMA costs us the taxpayer 1 billion? Or 2 or 3 billion? We have at least 22 billion going to Anglo, probably more. We pay God knows how much for ministerial cars, huge wages for TDs, Civil Servants, Hospital Consultants, HSE execs etc. In the meantime we savage the services that make life tolerable for the poor. So NAMA: who cares at this stage! Even the idiots in Fine Gael generates more interest...at least it’s slightly entertaining.

Brendan

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In the last three years has the Department of Finance got any prediction right, who are the people in the department and what qualifications do they have, as they don’t seem to have a clue.

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When FF was squandering and pocketing cash back then. What stopped FF from taking leadership to save some of that money for this rainy day, today?

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Vincent: In the national interest—the Government and future administrators would find more "solidarity" amongst the general populace regarding cuts (and create employment) if they enforced charge cuts in the professions? Surely its achievable, coinciding with service charges? The fact that there are "untouchables" within society, pampered, even in a recession—a class waiting for the party to begin again, exempt from any pain that incites such rage/opposition. A National effort where every shoulder is to the wheel is befitting to every generation since Nationhood.