Billy Wright: King Rat

On August 29, 1996, shortly before the CLMC's death threat against him expired, Emer Woodful interviewed LVF leader Billy Wright in his Portadown home.

Emer Woodful: How did you hear about the death threat?

Billy Wright: Well, I was aware of a conspiracy after Drumcree. I had been informed from Belfast that my name was to be blackened, and an excuse sought to execute me. So this has been an ongoing process since I took my stand with the Orange Institution at Drumcree.

And who tipped you off?

Well, I'm not going to say that. But what I can say is that I have a lot of fine friends in Belfast, and further afield, and there are a lot of fine loyalists in Belfast.

Why do you think this death threat was issued against you?

I have been very vocal in my opposition to the form of politics that the PUP has espoused. Now, I respect their right to hold their point of view, but if they claim to monopolize the opinion of loyalists and claim to be speaking on behalf of people that vehemently disagree with them, and then try to impose a silence, well I think that's morally wrong, and I will not allow people to impose their form of politics on me. And I most certainly wouldn't try to impose my politics on them.

You have been associated with Alec Kerr, who was expelled from the UDA in 1994.
How did you get involved with him?

I knew Alec when the war was on. He's a very articulate young man, and very presentable, and let me say that, prior to the cease-fire, Alec Kerr was one of the men who strove to try and bring about a settlement in Northern Ireland. However, he recognized, shortly into the process, that the IRA were not sincere, and when the production of the framework document came about, he understood like many loyalists that if the basis for peace was to be the framework document, then the unionist people were to go into a united Ireland.

The UVF leadership is obviously really angry with you. Earlier this month they stood down what they called one of the units in Portadown. Was that you they were referring to?

No, well, I'm not a member of any organisation, so they couldn't stand me down.

But then why do young loyalists look up to you so much as a hero if you're not a member of any organisation?

Well, I'm not conscious of anyone looking up to me as a hero. I think a lot of people see defiance in me, and I am defiant. I feel aggrieved at the way that the unionist people have been treated by the IRA and, indeed, by the governments. I'm very vocal on it, and I'm not going to be frightened into keeping quiet.

But how do you feel about the way many members of the Catholic community have been treated by loyalist paramilitaries, for example?

I can understand their feelings, and as a man that has buried three of his own family, I can sympathise with them. Nevertheless, I hold my views dear to my heart, and I think by and large that the unionist population has been the biggest victim in all of this conflict.

You say you lost three of your own family members. What are your feelings about the recent killings in mid-Ulster, like the brutal killing of Michael McGoldrick, the taxi driver from Lurgan; the young tennis player Gareth Parker in Belfast; and Niall Donovan, who went to a chipper in a Protestant part of Dungannon, who was brutally murdered and, I think, who's innards were actually taken out?

Well, I know like all other killings, I wish that they didn't take place.

But would you condemn them?

I don't know the circumstances of them, but I could say that I do sympathise with the families, but having been through it myself, I hope and pray that the IRA will call a permanent cease-fire, and that death and destruction will be gone forever from Northern Ireland. But I'll take the Sinn Féin line and say there's no point in condemnation.

If you say you're not a member of any paramilitary organization, why is the Combined Loyalist Military Command (CLMC) issuing a death threat against you?

I live in a staunchly loyalist town, where there are many UVF men, and in other parts of mid-Ulster as well, and I can assure you they're not angry with me.

But why has the CLMC issued a death threat, then?

As I said before, I will not have a foreign type of politics imposed on me, and because I'm seen to be a loyalist, and because I will not align myself to that type of politics, it appears that I'm an embarrassment to certain people.

But is it because you support violence, is that why they don't want anything to do with you?

I beg your pardon, I would remind you that I took part in pre-negotiations, before the cease-fire. I was the first leading loyalist to call for a loyalist cease-fire. I describe that day as the happiest day of my life. I am totally for peace. However, to achieve peace we need a permanent IRA cease-fire. If that isn't forthcoming, and if they continue to take British lives, and if the security forces don't handle them in the manner that they ought to, then I can understand why loyalist violence takes place.

And do you support loyalist violence?

I've always supported the right of the unionist people to defend themselves. You know, when you've looked into the coffins of loved ones, like I have, and you've heard the feeble excuses coming from nationalists, when the gunmen were coming out of the Irish Republic and murdering people along the border, words weren't good enough . But I say it again. Both sides in this conflict have recognized that the only way forward is through dialogue, so the IRA must call a permanent cease-fire.

You're saying you want talks, but you also say you understand how people support violence. Isn't that you basically supporting violence?

I have looked into the coffins of protestant people who were shot because of their faith, shot because of their work, shot where they prayed, and I stood as the security forces stood and said ‘we can't do anything about this.' And I watched sincere Roman Catholic people break their heart, they couldn't stop it. Now really what is it that you're asking of unionists? Are you asking them to sit back and be murdered, to have their country took off them, and for the security forces to say ‘we can't do nothing about it, and don't you do anything about it.'

Have you ever killed anyone yourself?

No, not at all.

After David Ervine's statement saying that the loyalist cease-fire is close to breaking point, the Taoiseach in Dublin, John Bruton, said he would meet anybody who wasn't involved in violence. Would you be interested in meeting him?

No, no. I mean, John Bruton must examine the Irish Republic's Constitution. He must understand that that Constitution justifies republican violence and leads nationalist young men to feel that they have the right, because of that Constitution and that claim, to take the lives of our people.

But unity would only be with consent, so why do you feel so threatened?

Well, consent, now, come on. Let's be totally honest .We've seen the Irish Republic seal the border because of a cattle problem. Why didn't they do it during the Troubles?

The constitution of the Irish Republic justifies the murder of British citizens…and having spent many years in the H Blocks and listened to young nationalists singing their songs, believe me they draw their opinions because of their education, and because they are brought up to believe that they have a right to take away this land.

I know you told me before that you were a religious preacher, and that you had to give it up, because you were afraid of the risk of public appearances. How do you marry your strong religious beliefs with, say, support in the past of the UVF?
Well, I'll say it again, when you look into the coffins of loved ones, who died at prayer, and died at work, and died for every reason you can think of, and then you're told by your security forces, ‘we can't stop this, nobody can stop this, but it's wrong also to defend yourself,' I have to say that people have the right to defend themselves.

What exactly does that mean?

Well, if people in the past took up arms to defend their community, because of IRA violence, well I won't be condemning them.

Tell me how important your religion in your life is to you.

I have a number of my family that are missionaries. I understand the right way in life. However, I don't practice it….And I believe that true Protestantism is about faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. You're quite correct to say that if you were practising that faith then you couldn't align them to your other beliefs.

So you don't practice anymore, because of that dilemma you see yourself.

That's correct.

Moving to Drumcree, what did you say to David Trimble there?

Very little. David Trimble asked me to use my influence, if I had any, to make sure there was no violence. And what little influence I had, I tried to use. But such was the gravity of the situation, and the depth of the feeling of the unionist people, that my voice was rendered useless.

You're not in the Orange Order, so what were you doing there?

Well, how dare you, dear, how dare you. I live here, my family are buried in Drumcree. I'll go to Drumcree church, and I'll not let you, I'll not let any nationalist tell me where I can or cannot go, or that I cannot speak to my MP, at a time when your government is speaking to the IRA or its representatives, or when John Hume can talk to Gerry Adams, and you would condemn me or your community would condemn me for talking to my local MP. What is it that you want me to be denied of?
What I'm saying is there was quite a lot of surprise in Britain as well that you were talking to David Trimble.

What surprise? I'm not allowed to talk to my local MP? I'm not allowed to walk to a church that I've been going to for years? What form of life is it that you would like to see imposed upon people from the unionist community?

It seems to me what you're looking for at the end of the day is total victory and total peace.

No. Now what is total victory? No one's looking for total victory. What we're looking for here is recognition of the democratic rights of the majority of people in Northern Ireland. All these people are asking for is to co exist with the Irish Republic.

What threatens you so much?

Well now, please. We now have two foreign governments interfering. We have the American and we have the government of the Free State sitting in Stormont. And that's an insult to the unionist people. We have seen our culture gradually eroded, with no benefit. I mean the denial of our culture without benefit, you must understand, that that to the unionist people is an insult. We have watched the IRA and Sinn Féin being pandered to…we watched senior politicians in the Republic of Ireland actually making excuses for the murder of British citizens. How do you really think that we feel? How do you think we feel?

But on the other hand, if you take someone like Gusty Spence, who was in the past a paramilitary and now is in the democratic process, and we have to move on…
Now I think there's a vast difference between the approach to peace by the loyalists and by republicans….Loyalists entered this process…with honesty and integrity. I mean, the same cannot be said for the republican movement.

[Edit]

You talk about the unionist family. There are obviously huge divisions in that family.
You have a death threat from the CLMC. I mean, who do you represent?

I don't claim to represent anyone. I'm a mid-Ulster loyalist. My feelings are the same, I'm positive on this, as the loyalists from mid-Ulster, and at the end of the day my feelings I can equate to 97 per cent of the unionist population, because they vote in a similar fashion to me.

Are you saying, then, that the UVF, UDA and PUP are totally out of touch with what the majority of unionists want?

Well, I would imagine that the UVF exists right across Northern Ireland, and I firmly believe there are differences of opinion within that movement. If you ask me do I differ in politics from the PUP, yes, I do.

But it's not just a political difference between you and the UVF. The UDA and UVF say we disagree with you so much [that] we're going to kill you.

Well, I find it incredible that they didn't feel that they had to go out and take military action against the IRA.

Well, that shows how strongly they feel against you, surely.

I think the unionist community will be bewildered at that…and, going by the amount of people absolutely disgusted with them, I think they've made a great mistake.

Most people would find it hard to understand that if a death threat has been issued against someone…that you'd be very nervous, but you're sitting here this afternoon, watching Oprah Winfrey, and you seem very relaxed.

Well, if you think you're right, then you're right. And I have done nothing wrong, except express an opinion that is the prevalent opinion of the people of Northern Ireland, and I will always do that, dear, no matter what the price.

Are you prepared, then, to die for this?

I've been prepared to die for long many a year. I don't wish to die, but at the end of the day no one will force their opinion down my throat, no one.

But do you feel personally driven to this, that you see no option, that it's worth dying for?

Well, I mean, if every time I had been threatened, I'd've given in, then I guess I'd have been an Irish nationalist. I'm not gonna be a PUP supporter simply because people threaten me.

So what drives you?

Well, I feel I live among people a great injustice has taken place against….I see their pain, I feel their alienation, and I'm part of that, and that's my motivation. I want justice for the unionist people.

And at a time like this, what about your partner, and your children?
I hope that the people that issued this, at certain people's behest, understand what they have done to a family…my heart goes out to my family. They look at me and they say, you know, ‘for a person who has worked so hard for the community, and someone that has run to the jails and looked after prisoners, for this to be done, and for the reason it's being done,' my family's totally disgusted with certain people in Belfast.

We're sitting here in your sitting-room, looking out the window, and every car that drives up, you're conscious of seeing who's in it.

Well, I mean, I've done that for long many a year. I survived gun attacks, bomb attacks, I've had my home taken over by the IRA. Sure, common sense tells you that living in Northern Ireland you learn to look after yourself.

You've been given a warning to get out of here within 72 hours. What are you going to do?

What I'm not gonna do is buy a plane ticket. I'm here. This is my homeland. This is where my family's buried, and where my ancestors lived, and this is where I will live and die.

You give me the oppression that you're just an ordinary loyalist. Many newspapers have described you as a leading, extreme paramilitary. Why would that be?

Well, I mean, I've had bad press for years and years. You grow to expect it…by and large the media's written by people favourable to nationalists.

And what of your being labelled “King Rat”?

Well, I was labelled that by an ex–IRA prisoner, Martin O'Hagan of the Sunday World.…As far as that name's concerned, well I've been labelled it, and it's stuck.
There's nothing I can do about it.

What do you hope for your children?

That there would be peace and reconciliation, and that this country would flourish.

Are you prepared for any compromise to get to peace, because I can't see any in there at all?

Well that's because you don't know me, dear, you don't know me. I lived in South Armagh. I lived among nationalist people, I grew up with them, I had no difficulty with them. If only the IRA and Sinn Féin would recognise our right to exist, to be British, then I believe the two communities…could come together, and a new form of life within a British context could evolve.

I understand when you say how the unionist community feels under threat, but at the end of the day you have the democratic process, and there is no threat if the numbers democratically say, ‘no, we don't want this.' Now, please. Don't insult us. We have the Framework Document, and we've had calls for it to be imposed, and indeed paragraph 47 states that it should be imposed. What's democratic about that? Please don't tell us nothing will be imposed.

You've told me you're someone who could envisage compromise. Tell me where.
Well, I recognize there are difficulties within Northern Ireland, and that if the constitutional issue was solved, that parade issues and similar things like that could be settled without the underlying threat of it being more devious than what it appears.